Did Maggie just put the final nail in the coffin of her marriage before she leaves for good?

The Maggie and Winston drama continued on Grey’s Anatomy Season 19 Episode 13, while developments in JoLink’s relationship are making shippers out of us, and Simone’s messiness with Lucas has become pure entertainment.

Join former TV Fanatic, Swiftie, and reviewer Meaghan Frey, aspiring actor and Grey’s superfan Joshua Johnson, and Jasmine Blu as they discuss the hour.

What’s your reaction to Winston and Maggie’s counseling session and Maggie’s statements to Winston in the parking lot? Do you agree with her?

Meaghan: Until this episode, I thought the writers were purposefully making Maggie insufferable because she is leaving the series. After this, I’m not sure they are even aware they are doing it.

Between the counseling session and Maggie’s big speech to Winston in the parking lot, it seemed that they were putting the blame for their marriage’s downfall squarely on Winston’s shoulders.

I can understand to an extent what Maggie was saying about Winston switching specialties instead of talking out their issues; however, short of one of them transferring to another hospital or Maggie completely changing her management style, he didn’t have much choice.

Why is it ok for Maggie to choose to take the job in Chicago without even having a real discussion about it with Winston, but Winston can’t switch his specialty? I could excuse this if it were an isolated incident, but it’s very similar to what they did with Meredith when she left. They seem to think they are giving these women an empowering moment, but instead, they are making them unlikeable.

Joshua: I understand where Maggie comes from, but I’m afraid I must disagree with her. The example she gave about Winston’s father and him walking closing the laptop was laughable at best. These are things you learn as relationships grow and deepen!

Winston dealt with a family issue the way that he was used to dealing with a family issue; if he hadn’t talked to Maggie about it later, I would agree with Maggie. But between the two, Winston does his best to explain his issues and try to adapt how he handles them, considering his relationship.

As Meaghan said, I also understand why she might be upset about Winston switching specialties, but Winston explained why he was doing it again. Rather than trying to figure out how to work with or understand her husband, she completely wrote off his decision.

It feels like Maggie has an idealized version of how relationships should work; in that version, she gets everything she wants. As a child prodigy, it makes sense that Maggie might be emotionally stunted.

Still, both Jackson and Winston have had the same problems with her (even Ethan in Grey’s Anatomy Season 11 brought up the fact that Maggie only talked about herself on their first date). Maggie doesn’t need couples therapy; she needs therapy- therapy to unlearn herself as the center of all her relationships.

Jasmine: Again, I say, Maggie has always been my girl. I’ve always had a soft spot for her, and I have always been frustrated with the particular misogyny or flat-out misogynoir the character and even the actress has faced that is so far from warranted.

I’m just disappointed with how they’re going about this because the bones are there for an in-character exit for Maggie, but the execution is poor. I can understand Maggie’s perspective to a degree, but I’m so beyond done with her placing all this blame on Winston because he doesn’t have the same priorities as hers, and his love language is different.

Yes, he knows what he got into with Maggie, but that works both ways. She knew how much he loved her and his willingness to put their marriage above all else for him. It’s just so wrong for her to punish him for loving her enough to make some sacrifices while essentially expecting him to make others that are to her liking.

I thought her calling him a coward was so far out of line. Her whole diatribe in the parking lot put me off because it again laid all this blame on him with zero self-awareness from her, and I’m just so over it.

I hate they’re sending Maggie out on a bad note like this. It’s like they just sacrificed her to the wolves.

Is moving to Chicago for a career opportunity the best call for Maggie? Do you think Winston should or would want to go with her now?

Meaghan: Of course. It’s a great opportunity for her. But Winston shouldn’t follow her there.

The two of them need some time apart to figure out if their marriage is worth saving. It doesn’t feel like it is right now, but maybe given some time and distance, that could change. Selfishly I want Winston to stay and become the new cardio attending.

Winston has always been great, and this would give him room to develop as a character independent of Maggie. It’s bad enough that we will lose Nick because of Meredith leaving; I don’t want to lose Winston too.

Joshua: Basically, I co-sign everything Meaghan says. Maggie needs to go, Winston needs to stay, and they really need to figure out if this relationship is worth it. I don’t see it lasting, and that’s probably for the best.

Jasmine: It’s a fantastic opportunity for Maggie. She deserves and earned it, so good for her in that regard. She should go. Winston should stay, though. And they should be over. It’s just not going to work.

How do you think Amelia will deal with another one of her sisters leaving her, and are you worried about her potentially relapsing or falling into a dark place?

Meaghan: Poor Amelia. I don’t think that it will lead to a relapse. She is in a good place right now. I’d be concerned if she were already on rocky ground and then lost her whole support system, but that’s not the case.

But as I mentioned during our last roundtable, I worry that Amelia will become irrelevant with Maggie and Mer gone. At this point, her only friend will be Richard; that won’t get her many storylines next season. This is exactly why we need to bring back Addison permanently.

Joshua: If there is a storyline for Amelia after Season 19, it’s seeing if she can handle navigating life without the people who anchor her. I don’t think Amelia would relapse, if only because we’ve seen that storyline happen across two shows, and I think her newfound motherhood would help keep her from relapsing.

Ultimately, I see Amelia leaving Grey Sloan to be with Kai. Caterina Scorsone has been playing Amelia for almost 15 years; what other storylines could they find for her? (I also wonder if, with her house burning down, Caterina might see this as a time to step away from work and focus on rebuilding her and her family’s life).

Jasmine: I think Amelia will be resilient and do fine. I can see her leaning on people like Richard and Kai more. I feel bad that she’s losing her sisters like this, though. But I am at a place where I’m wondering about the state of many of the attending characters and whether or not they still have storylines worth exploring.

Do you think Levi has been too mean to the interns? Did you agree with Helm and Bailey’s assessment of and advice to him?

Meaghan: He’s been worse than Bailey was in the beginning. Bailey had a tough exterior, but there was also compassionate from the very start. All we’ve gotten with Levi as Chief Resident is that hardness. We see him outside of work still being the sweet Levi we all know and love, but the interns never get to see that side of him.

I’m glad he took Bailey and Helm’s words to heart and began showing the interns who he really is. That’s part of becoming a leader.

Through trial and error, you find what leadership style works best. Levi was the intern who was a mess and the one who was thriving. He can use those experiences to become a supportive leader that pushes the interns to reach their full potential.

Joshua: Levi has absolutely been too mean to the interns.

As Meaghan said, his management style lacks compassion; he’s a hardass because he thinks that’s what he needs to be. It’s as if he thinks that makes him human–the nerdy, endearing awkwardness–is a detriment to him as a doctor when really, that’s what makes him a great doctor. He needs to find the balance between the two.

Jasmine: Yeah, Levi is all hardass and no compassion or relatability, which is weird because it wasn’t that long ago when he was in their shoes. Bailey was a hardass, but she truly cared about her interns, and we saw that in many moments.

He definitely needs to find his balance, and he’s in a great position to help these interns avoid some of his pitfalls and even keep up with their mental health. Bailey and Helm were both right, and I loved them for it.

Should Georgia’s parents have insisted, she stops bull riding until she was an adult? Were the doctors too judgmental of this situation?

Meaghan: They are the parents. It’s their job to protect her. Yes, she has to make her own mistakes and hopefully learn from them, but at some point, you have to step in and say enough is enough.

It’s not worth letting her die so that she can get her way. When they told the story of her not eating and sinking into a depression because she wasn’t riding, I couldn’t help but empathize with them. I can’t begin to imagine what it must feel like being a parent in that situation; they should’ve gotten her help, not just put a bandaid on it.

The doctors were being judgemental, but it’s hard not to be. Like Lucas and Simone’s case, they only saw a snapshot of the situation. They couldn’t see the years of experiences that brought Georgia and her parents to that moment.

Seeing the full picture allowed them to give her the no-hold-barred truth she needed.

Joshua: The doctors weren’t too judgmental at all. It’s a doctor’s job to consider the whole person as a patient, and mental health is an easily overlooked thing.

It’s great that Georgia found something she’s passionate about, pulling her out of her depression. Still, without finding the root of that depression and treating that, Georgia will always be in danger.

That said, I found it ironic that of all people, Maggie was the person who related to her and got her to calm down and understand that she needed to heal and rest. It was a bit like the pot talking to the kettle about needing to listen to what other people have to say.

Jasmine: I would’ve been exactly like the doctors in this situation, and if that’s “too judgmental,” then so be it. I find it frustrating because the parents should’ve put their foot down about this.

I was willing to give them some wiggle room if they came up with the argument that she was financially supporting the household through her bull riding. Georgia’s passion needed to be put on hold until she was old enough.

Were you proud of Lucas for trusting his gut and making that big save? Do you think he’ll stop doubting himself constantly, and will the others stop treating him like a screwup?

Meaghan: I was cheering him on so hard.

Obviously, a large portion of what makes someone a great doctor is their knowledge, but having those gut instincts is just as important. Those instincts are what stop you from missing things.

It doesn’t hurt anyone to take the extra time to review the patient’s history and ensure nothing is being overlooked, but not doing it? Ignoring your gut telling you something is wrong? That can kill someone. Hopefully, this will instill some confidence in him because he has the potential to be great.

Joshua: Oh man, I got so happy that I teared up a little bit.

He internalized what Amelia told him about following his gut; he was able to focus on the patient after talking with Nick and learning new ways for him to engage, and he paid attention to Richard’s lesson about looking deeper into scans. This was such a great moment for him, and I’m glad he advocated for himself. Lucas needed that win to feel bolstered.

How did the patient forget that he swallowed a two-inch-long toothpick? That’s not something you do without realizing it. A minor quibble for a significant plot point, but still.

Jasmine: I love it when my baby boy gets a win! Seriously, I love Lucas so much, and I’m proud of him anytime he gets to show that he’s a good, competent doctor who leads with compassion. I just have such a soft spot for baby Shep.

It was also a great lesson because one of the biggest issues in healthcare for patients is dealing with doctors and medical professionals who don’t listen to them. I also appreciated their touching on what it’s like for a patient with a past of addiction to get dismissed or written off easily because of that.

Simone asked Lucas to be her Man of Honor at her wedding, and he agreed. React!

Meaghan: Simone, Simone, Simone. You cannot ask the man who just had his hands in your pants while your fiance confessed his love for you to be your Man of Honor. You are just asking for trouble.

It’s not like you had feelings for him years ago and then got past them and remained good friends. No, this was just a few weeks ago. Emotions don’t magically disappear overnight.

This wedding is doomed. At this point, I’m just getting my popcorn ready for when it all implodes spectacularly.

Joshua: I was so frustrated by Simone asking this that I yelled, “Seriously?” at the screen. I didn’t even think about it from the perspective of Simone’s feelings; I thought about how rude and insensitive it was for her to ask Lucas to be her man of honor after everything he said to her in her room during the intern party.

Jasmine: Simone is so messy, and I should hate it or find it annoying (because why are we hurting Lucas like this, baby?), but somehow, it manages to be entertaining. She’s such a gloriously hot mess. Let’s think about the audacity, the unmitigated gall she has to ask LUCAS to be her Man of Honor?

Also, part of me cackled because it made me think about how Lucas is Derek’s nephew, and Patrick Dempsey was in Made of Honor (with Kevin McKidd, which is a whole other thing), playing his best friend and love of his life’s Man of Honor. Screw Japril callbacks; give me callbacks to that rom-com. Thank you very much.

Baby, I’m here for the mess. Simone can’t quit Lucas so much that she’s trying to keep him in her life but desexualize him and erase their feelings however she can in her mind, and it’s not working. And Lucas is so gone for this girl that he will literally do anything for her, including this.

Were Jo and Link right about one another, and why they’re both incapable of rest? How long before JoLink officially becomes a thing?

Meaghan: These two know each other like the back of their hands. They see each other for who they really are and are completely correct in their assessments of each other. Jo and Link are everything that the writers tried to portray Alex and Jo as being but never really succeeded at doing so, in my eyes.

While Alex and Jo often brought out a darkness in each other, Jo and Link help bring out the best in each other.

The writers will drag this out the rest of the season before they finally admit how they feel, but I’m ok with the wait. I love this slow burn between their conversation in bed during this episode and their elevator moment in Grey’s Anatomy Season 19 Episode 12.

Joshua: The JoLink scenes in this episode officially got me to ship them. I’m enjoying this slow burn into a relationship. They already have a solid friendship and know so much about each other, which makes it easier for them to wade into more romantic waters. I hope the writers don’t sully this one; Jo deserves to be happy for once.

Jasmine: Fine, you two. FINE. I’ll join you on the ship, begrudgingly. I’m not steering anything, though, dammit.

I agree with Joshua; the slow burn is nice while capitalizing on their friendship. I hope they don’t screw it up because that’s why I’m still struggling… I’m still incredibly pissed by what they did to Amelink.  And I believe Link deserves happiness, and I’m just happy to see him in his romantic leading man bag right now. He plays that role so well.

What was your favorite moment from the hour? Is there anything else you’d love to address?

Meaghan: Jo and Link’s scenes were standouts to me. Him seeing through her facade that she wasn’t sick and just needed a little TLC, bringing her mini donuts, them psychoanalyzing each other.

They’ve somehow managed to turn two characters that I loathed just one season ago — and in Jo’s case, pretty much since her introduction — and make me love them. I always hoped I could get back to that place with Link after the Amelia debacle, but I never thought I’d get there with Jo.

I’m worried about Jules and Blue. With Jules bringing up their no feelings rule and mentioning that she might be violating it a little but still moving forward with sleeping together because he has no feelings, I just worry Jules will end up hurt at some point.

Joshua: I agree with Meaghan about Jules sleeping with Blue. I was so disappointed when she decided to leave with Blue, knowing she had feelings and he didn’t. She absolutely will get her feelings hurt.

I have to say, I’m also terrified for Bailey and how the windshield fliers will affect her and the Elena Bailey clinic. At the same time, it’s another smart way of continuing to tell stories that show the ramifications of the battle for women’s health rights.

Jasmine: My favorite moment has to go to Bailey with her vagina quote. It stayed on repeat in my head since I watched the installment. It was such a classic Grey’s line, and can we applaud Bailey from graduating from “vajayjay” to “the whole vagina?” Grown woman stuff right there, you guys!

You said you wanted to be the vɑginɑ of the program because vaginas are so strong. Well, vaginas also bring pleasure. They bring joy, bring life. You got to be the whole vɑginɑ, Schmidt, not just the muscle.

Bailey

But, yes, Joshua. I’m apprehensive about Bailey getting doxed. Ben was concerned about her on Station 19 and went as far as accompanying her and Carina on a mission they went on at a clinic, and his concerns were validated at this moment.

Over to you, Grey’s Fanatics.

Do you agree with our round table? Do you disagree? Hit the SHOW COMMENTS button below and discuss your thoughts.

Grey’s Anatomy airs Thursdays at 9/8c on ABC.

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