Note: The following story contains spoilers from “Succession” Season 4, Episode 6
The latest episode of “Succession” was crowded with standout moments, from the posthumous return of Logan Roy (Brian Cox) to a flirtatious reunion between Tom (Matthew McFadyen) and Shiv (Sarah Snook) to an almost-cringe Investor Day presentation from Kendall (Jeremy Strong).
The episode, titled “Living+,” marks the third time behind the camera for director Lorene Scafaria, who previously directed “Too Much Birthday” in Season 3 and “Honeymoon States” in Season 4. She told TheWrap that working with Cox on the pre-taped videos for Waystar’s Investor Day presentation offered a massive and nerve-wracking opportunity to collaborate with him one last time on the HBO drama series.
“As you can imagine after Episode 3, I didn’t imagine I’d be working with Brian again. And suddenly at the table read there was that opening scene,” she said. “So that was so thrilling to think of the audible gasp for the audience opening on Logan.”
Read on for TheWrap’s full conversation with Scafaria about the episode’s biggest moments, how Strong pitched the idea of the flight jackets himself and why she thinks it’s time for Kieran Culkin to get his due.
What has it been like to be in the director’s chair during the final season of one of the biggest TV shows of all time?
An absolute honor. I’m gobsmacked that I got the opportunity in the first place. It was February 2020 when I did my first interview phone call with Jesse and Mark and certainly didn’t know then that I would even be invited back for Season 4, let alone that it would be the last season and so momentous. I feel so lucky. This is my third episode. They’ve gifted me such wonderful material, and I was lucky enough to do Kendall’s 40th birthday debacle and then had the daunting task of Logan’s wake. But they’ve all been so different and [Episode 6] was just this incredible sort of spectacle, this sprawling movie, but they all focus on the siblings without dad in the room. I’ve just been so lucky to work with these actors and this crew. It’s just been a dream.
How did you approach crafting the episodes this season?
They were all so different. 307 was this wild ride but it was perfectly contained, and 404 was like this intimate ensemble play. There were so many different inspirations, “Clue” and [Ingmar] Bergman and Eugene O’Neill. Just pulling from a lot. But that was its own challenge, just all taking place in one location whereas [Episode 6] had so many different locations that you never saw before. Waystar LA, Waystar Studios. It was such a sprawling little film and it did read like a movie on the page, the scripts come in very long, but there was something else about it that just gave it that vibe. And since it was this LA episode, we just decided to have a little fun with that and lean into that feeling. So that was kind of the approach for this one out of the gate.
What was it like getting to work with Brian Cox on Episode 6?
I love that we’re seeing him in this completely surreal setting, to this strange green screen behind him and the clapper in front of his face feels like a little bit of a wink, you know. And I can say that was the most nervous I’ve ever been on the set of “Succession.” Not just because of course, Brian was back and we had to figure out how to reintroduce him in a fun way, but I had the extra daunting task of acting opposite Brian Cox, even though I was off camera as the director of the promo. I was just sweating down to my waist and brought a change of clothes that day. It was an insane surreal little dream within a dream.
Why did you decide to do that yourself?
I certainly didn’t make the decision. I promise I didn’t cast myself. But at some point Jesse asked if I’d play the role of the director. It might have been the only role I could have been suited for.
Episode 6 is a showcase for Shiv, as she plays both sides between her brothers and Matsson, and as she rekindles her relationship with Tom. How did you approach the Shiv/Tom scenes in this episode?
What a treat. They’re both just so good and the writing is so good. So, I mean it’s all credit to these two actors and what the writers brought to it. The room where Shiv is crying, for her scheduled grief, it’s fascinating to see her go from being so furious with her brothers to these tears of frustration, and I think she’s so lonely. I think she’s plagued by this loneliness, that I don’t know if she would have even known how much she could have missed Tom until being on the outs with her brothers, and not sure where she fits with [Lukas] Mattson and her dad being gone and that creature comfort that kind of takes over.
Tom being that voice on the phone in 403, I think that was so important that he was that calm in the storm for her. And yet here in this room, the way that sex kind of swirls around death, I just wanted to make it kind of sexy, actually kind of remind the audience that there was a connection between these people in the first place and my approach there was just to make sure that she was the one who kissed him.
We certainly did a lot of — as far as blocking and talking and choreography — with it all, even though we wanted to keep it alive. Then to take that energy into this Investor party, this bitey moment, that was just electrifying. They’re like two kids who already kissed under the bleachers, so now here they are just teenagers, and I spoke to them a lot about how when you’re feeling each other out, your body is just kind of twisting around, sometimes you’re facing one way, sometimes you’re facing the other. And then with two people like this, especially with Shiv and what she’s been through, suddenly this expression of love that they have for each other comes out through violence and who can hurt the other one more. And I think for her, once that bite comes down, she kind of recognizes maybe through the trauma of childhood and how she associates feelings of love and suddenly that pain is kind of familiar and it sparks something even more which then of course we take into the post coital conversation between the two of them and their love is messed up, but it’s kind of still love.
So again, I just wanted to keep it sexy and on its feet. You’re feeling the love, but man, are you a little bit suspicious about what this is. And yet Tom is being so honest with her, he’s talking about money. He’s telling her his values almost for the first time, as if it is a surprise. But in a way, it’s this thing that they have in common and it brings them together and it sort of makes him the right man for her. And I mean, they laugh at the end. They’re just so brilliant.
Sarah deserves all the marbles this year. [Shiv] is the most complicated, multifaceted character. The depths that she goes to and then comes back from. I call her the bends because that’s like what she gives me during one scene. It’s just gotten to the bottom of the ocean and resurfaced again. So much is happening behind her eyes.
Shiv’s storyline this season has been fascinating since Logan’s death. You directed the scene where she finds out she’s pregnant in Episode 4, which she’s kind of swept under the rug for now. What was your approach to directing such a pivotal, but also really quick moment?
Reading that on the page for the first time, and realizing that this episode was going to have this gigantic reveal. It’s almost like a soap moment. You just want to make sure that everything feels as real as possible. It’s funny, people keep saying ‘Oh, each episode is almost a day.’ These are the craziest 10, 11, 12 days in the Roy family’s lives. But I think that’s exactly how it happens. When it rains, it pours and you often are dealing with way too many things at once.
They say the two things that change you the most are having a child and the death of a parent. So for Shiv to be dealing with both of those things at the same time, that’s just absolute head scramble.
What’s the biggest challenge for you as a director bringing her story from the page to the screen?
I think the biggest challenge in telling Shiv’s story is just keeping all of those things alive. But, I mean, to be completely honest again, with writing this good. Georgia Pritchett and Will Arbery are so brilliant, all the storylines for Shiv up until this point, everything that Sarah brings to it, she’s just so full and so I think the biggest challenge is just keeping all of that in my own head.
But these actors know the characters better than everyone. So that’s not that difficult for me to be honest. My job is halfway there as far as her keeping it a secret and what it means for her within the scenes with Tom, what it means for her when, I mean, you’ve seen other episodes where she’s had to pretend she might do a line of coke. There’s so much that she has to keep in her head while it’s the last thing in the world that she has the time for. In a way, it’s like her womanhood is this constant reminder. I guess I sort of have a feeling like that sometimes. You just don’t think of yourself that way until you’re reminded “All right, I’m a woman.” And so I think this is just a constant reminder.
When we shot her falling in episode 404. As an audience member, you’re reminded like, “oh good God,” you’re just so worried for her in a new way that you never had before, never thought of her as someone that needed to be taken care of or needed anyone else to help take care of her. So I think that’s all swirling in her head.
Episode 6 was also big for Roman as he’s making big decisions like firing Gerri and stepping out of the Investor Day presentation, and then reckoning with his own uncertainty about his actions. What were conversations with Kieran Culkin like as you worked on his scenes?
He’s just so brilliant. I couldn’t root harder for anyone. I just have to say if he walks away from this show and his character without getting his flowers — give that man his flowers, good grief. He’s been a knockout from the beginning, but I think people are really seeing the range this year.
As far as those scenes, we had a lot of different conversations about it. He’s just such a special actor. Going into the scene with the head of Waystar Studios, I think in a way this is where Roman feels like he might be able to add some great ideas. I think he thinks of himself as slightly more creative and thinks this might be a good fit for him. So when he’s undermined in that scene by her saying, “I’m sure you are where you are for a very good reason.” I think that’s just so triggering for him. This is mom, this is dad. These are the years of being ignored, and Kieran brought that intensity along with the pain that you see in the scene with Gerri.
I think when Gerri says “You’re not your dad,” obviously that’s just the straw that breaks the camel’s back. And in a way, I think Roman firing Gerri started — I mean of course it started in 403 when his dad told him to do it. But I think it really was after Roman is just so sad after his father died, he tells Gerri how sad he is and she just walks up out of the room. I think that rejection was incredibly painful for him. So firing Gerri is at once hurting her the way that she hurt him and also filling his dad’s shoes. But as the episode goes on, I think the shoes are just filling with blood.
My favorite scene in the entire episode is the last scene of him in the car listening to the edited video of his dad over and over and just seeing everything flash across his face. He knows it’s funny and then the pain seeps in and then he just holds that phone up to his ear. On the day, and even now, it just makes me ill when I watch it. He just brings so much vulnerability and sensitivity to a character that I don’t think you’d understand him quite so well if you didn’t have such a special actor behind it.
What was it like working with Jeremy Strong on the big Investor Day presentation?
I would follow Jeremy Strong to the ends of the earth. He is so brilliant. We’ve had such fun episodes together. I’ve gotten very lucky with the three episodes that I did that have these very full Kendall arcs in a way, and are maybe a nice little Kendall trilogy on their own actually. So I’ve been lucky to take him from manic states to depressive ones and from depressive states to manic ones. And so this was that same birthday boy has got that gleam in his eye. Just all these grand ideas, all these big manic ideas and the show has had such great history with all the anxiety and tension already built into the idea of Kendall getting up on stage.
But this was certainly a challenge. We had a lot of extras who all had to keep everything a secret. I think they did it because they knew how important they were to the scene. Jeremy thanked them all after and the whole room just cheered for him. It was like he had 300 scene partners.
I do like to treat these very special sequences as much like a stunt as possible. Let Jeremy run the presentation through from beginning to end, including talking with the press. So we just went in with a really solid plan, worked with a wonderful DP, Katelin Arizmendi, for the first time this year and it was a seven-camera day. We had five film cameras and two video cameras.
I think one of the strokes of genius came from Jeremy himself, this flight jacket that I have to give him full credit for — along with, of course, costume designer Michelle Matlin — who I think told an entire story with the placement of that red ATN patch on his arm. On one hand, this jacket is like a fun-loving “Top Gun: Maverick” homage, and on the other it’s this incredibly fascist imagery. It conjures such a dark feeling. So I couldn’t help but encourage that idea.
But I just wanted to show that he’s really alone up there. We had some fun putting three spotlights on him so that there are these moments you see he’s casting these three shadows on the floor behind him that feel like these echoes of his siblings, even though he’s up there all alone. And full credit to the writers who gave Kendall a win for a change. I mean, what could be more surprising than that?
The episode ends on Kendall heading to the beach and jumping into the water. Why did you choose to end the episode on that shot?
It’s funny because the beach scene was not always in the script. It appeared in a draft and then it disappeared, and I must say I was adamant about the beach scene. There were whole days where I was the only person who wanted to shoot it. It was just an absolute logistical nightmare. It was a cold day in mid-October, rough seas but I’m just such a superfan of the show. So I was so excited to see Kendall face up in the water and even though there are dark clouds on the horizon and he’s alone, it’s a victory lap. We’ve seen him face down in the water, we’ve seen him sitting in empty bathtubs, we’ve had this imagery before. But it was just something I felt very strongly had to end the episode. I only wish I could have played the action straight through because Jeremy really dove into those waves rather fearlessly. There’s no stunt double there. We were all holding our gasp.
There’s a very silly, I don’t know what it is. I’m sure it’s like a meme or something. That your feelings on the ocean are similar to your feelings on love and maybe that’s just something corny that I happen to possibly believe in. So I couldn’t help but want to see him actually dive into it for a change.
What are you going to miss the most about working on “Succession”?
I’ve only done three episodes in the last two seasons but I’m gonna miss everything. This doesn’t happen every day. I think people feel how special this show is. I think why the show is so good is because it’s all the best qualities of Jesse Armstrong. He’s a grown-up and he’s sensitive and he’s generous and he’s honest, just an inherently compassionate, brilliant, spiritually advanced person. So every decision is coming from this combination of intelligence and taste, class, humanity, a deep consideration of the human experience. It’s just so elegantly done for something that’s kept so raw and alive, which you have to credit Mark Mylod and obviously the entire crew and the cast, everyone involved. I’m gonna miss everybody, everything. I’ll miss it more than anything.
