Hirokazu Kore-eda Explores World of Geisha in Netflix’s ‘The Makanai’ – The Hollywood Reporter

Hirokazu Kore-eda infuses the world of the Japanese geisha with his signature gentle humanism in The Makanai: Cooking for the Maiko House, his first drama series for Netflix, launching worldwide this week. 

Based on a best-selling manga by Aiko Koyama, the nine-episode series is set in the traditional Geiko district of Kyoto, depicting the inner sanctum of aspiring maiko courtesans. The story follows two 16-year-old girls, Kiyo (Mori Nana) and Sumire (Natsuki Deguchi), who move from rural Aomori with dreams of becoming geisha. But while Sumire is instantly identified as a natural talent in the traditional arts — dance, elaborate costume and delicate music-making — Kiyo proves an awkward fit. Instead, she finds her place as a makanai, the traditional cook who prepares the meals within the yakata house where all of the geiko live together. 

Kore-eda, who won Cannes’ Palme d’Or in 2018 with his family drama Shoplifters, acts as the show’s producer, showrunner and co-writer. He also directs some of the episodes, while overseeing a trio of aspiring Japanese proteges — Megumi Tsuno, Hiroshi Okuyama and Takuma Sato — who helm additional episodes. Kore-eda has been outspoken about his desire to leverage his industry influence to create opportunities for a new generation of Japanese filmmaking talent. The series is produced by Japanese multi-talent Genki Kawamura (Confessions, Your Name). 

“Kore-eda brings to The Makanai some of the same tenderness and compassion that’s made films like Broker and Shoplifters so beloved,” wrote The Hollywood Reporter‘s critic in her review published Thursday, calling the series “as cozy and comforting as a home-cooked meal.”

THR connected with Kore-eda to discuss the inspirations behind his first Netflix project, as well as some thornier questions regarding the geisha tradition’s proper place within contemporary Japanese life. 

What sparked your interest in telling this story? 

Well, I was interested because this was a world that I did not know. In films, I had seen this world portrayed by Kenji Mizoguchi and Mikio Naruse, but I realized I didn’t have any idea how geiko and maiko actually live their lives in the present day. So I was very curious to look into this world. And when I began my research, I found that the shape of their lives is indeed very different from what most of us experience. Most of us have lost touch with and forgotten so many of these customs. The way they live by the seasons and all of the rituals they observe — these traditions are ongoing. Today, it’s a very small community and world, so the connections they have within it are very intense. I thought that reflecting on this different, older style of life might offer some insight into how they rest of us are living today. And it’s a world I knew that I would love to shoot. 

Could you share a little more about what your research process was like? What did you need to do to make sure you got all of the details of their traditions and lifestyle correct?

Well, the original manga is obviously fiction. In real life, there are no teenagers who work as Makanai in that environment. But when I did my research, I went to one of those Yakata houses where all of the women live as a small community and I spent time with their Makanai. The person I interviewed was a woman in her in her 70s. She actually wasn’t an in-house Makanai; she had a separate home, where she lived and did all of her cooking. But I basically followed her for a whole day and observed what she did and how she lived her life. And then for the Yakata houses, I wasn’t actually able to visit directly, because they have a very strict rule about not allowing any outsiders. But there are these people called otokoshi, whose job it is to dress the Maiko in their kimono; they are the only outsiders allowed to enter the Yakata houses. So, through the eyes of the makanai and otokoshi I was able to do some research and get some impressions. I also visited the kimono houses in the neighborhood and researched the ozashiki, the places where the Geiko and Maiko showcase their art for their audiences. And then, finally, I also did interviews with some Maiko and geisha themselves. 

From what I understand, there’s often a lot of international misunderstanding about Japanese geisha and the historical realities of the tradition. And I believe there is even debate within Japan about just how empowered geisha were, historically, and how the tradition should be perceived in relation to modern feminist ideals. You tell a very sweet and innocent story with this series, but what you said just now about there not being any 16-year-olds working as Makanai in today’s geisha houses made me wonder about your views on some of these more complicated questions. The story does follow two 16-year-old girls who drop out of high school to work in this world. And although it’s a world of exquisite, highly evolved art forms, it also comes down to young women hosting and serving drinks to much older men. In the process of working on the show, did you develop a view on the proper place of this tradition within Japanese society today?

Have you seen all of the episodes? 

I’ve seen five, so far. 

Well, I am aware of the fact that people do have opinions on opposite sides of this issue, and not just from my experience of working on this drama. Personally, I feel that it’s probably necessary for this tradition to undergo some reform, and some people within this world have told me there are working to do just that. But as you’ve mentioned, it’s also true that there is a lot of misunderstanding regarding geisha and Maiko. When I interviewed one of the Okami-sans, the former house mothers, they told me that a lot of the foreigners who visit them have seen Memoirs of a Geisha and their understanding of geisha have been totally shaped by that film. So they assume all of the girls were sold to the house because of a poor upbringing, or that they are there out of desperation. And my own knowledge of Geisha, basically, had been shaped by Mizoguchi, who told very sad stories back in his day too. 

But then in real life, when I was doing my research and went to the Hanamachi (a district where Geisha live and work), the people I met there were very enthusiastic about this tradition and it was something that they had actively sought out. They want to preserve this culture and they want it to be accepted, and they are very serious about continuing to reform. All of the houses I had contact with would only accept Maiko if they had the express support of their parents. It really seemed to me that they were taking solid actions and I felt their passion for preserving their tradition and their art form. Personally, I feel that I would like to root for them. Obviously, it’s not perfect. But we creators in the entertainment industry, we have been far too late in making our reforms as well. So, I would like to think we could continue to work together in that sense. 

But when I was developing the show, I did think that introducing this world as a place of pure, dreamlike wonder would be very irresponsible. So I also incorporated some elements into the show that didn’t exist in the original story of the manga — as a slight critique. That’s why I asked you how much of the show you had seen. For example, I included the character of the daughter who has strong critical opinions about the maiko ways. And I also added Sumire’s father, who strongly objects to her wanting to become a maiko. And then I also had the sequence where the Okami-san shares her opinions in reply. So I added these elements to introduce some of the questions that you raise, but ultimately, I tried to leave it to the viewer to form their own judgement. 

What were your visual ambitions for the show, given that there is such an automatic expectation for rarefied beauty around geisha in Kyoto? The show has such a lovely natural glow throughout. 

Well, I thought about the streets of Kyoto and the beauty of kimono — and I obviously wanted to light the food so it looks delicious. Those were some of the obvious things I thought about. But what I cared about most was how the Yakata, or geisha house, was built. We designed to have three stories. The first floor is the communal space; the second floor has the bedrooms; and then the third floor is Kiyo’s attic. And we also added an upper laundry area as a fourth layer. We built all of this in the studio as a set. In each of these four different areas, the women show different faces. For example, on the first floor, you have the Okasan, the mother, and right next-door, you have the adjoining bar, with customers. So this level is a public area and they put on their public faces there. On the second floor is a communal area, so they have their communal lives amongst one another in this space. And then on the third floor we always find Kiyo all alone. The outdoor laundry hanging area, which is right next to the neighbor, is a space they go to when they’re dealing with the issues of growing up, or not being a mature adults yet. It’s a sort of transition space. Through the dialog that takes places in these four spaces, I wanted to clearly portray the differences in the air, giving these nuances solid shape. If I were able to pull that off, I felt the characters of the story would be much more dimensional and rich.